From Keith Langlois:
“Depending on who they start, we may start Amir against New York and we may start Amir against Milwaukee (on Friday),” Michael Curry said after Tuesday’s practice. “Some nights we’re going to play Kwame as a starter, some nights it’s going to be Amir.”
[…] “I’ve said from the beginning, it depends on the matchups,” Curry said. “You all see Amir. Why would I put Amir our there and start him against Shaq and Bynum? That’s not a favorable matchup for him. As a coach, that’s not putting a guy in position to succeed. I don’t care about how many lineups we have. That doesn’t faze me. It’s a matter of putting a guy in position each night to give them a chance to be successful.”
When McDyess returns, he’ll assume the role he left - coming off the bench, usually in relief of Rasheed Wallace to give the Pistons both a scoring threat in their frontcourt and a big man who can spread the floor and give Iverson and Rodney Stuckey, especially, wider openings to probe.
I completely understand the idea of exploiting matchups (were I in Curry’s shoes, that’s how I’d do it), but for whatever it’s worth, he is kind of backtracking. Flash back to 11 days ago:
Something needed to be done and Michael Curry acted on that Thursday. He inserted center Kwame Brown into the starting lineup and moved Amir Johnson back to the bench.
“If he plays well, it will be permanent,” Curry said.
There were several specific reasons for making the move.
“We’ve thought about it for a while,” Curry said. “The reason we had Amir in the starting lineup from the beginning was because at that time it enabled us to speed up. With Allen Iverson here now, we don’t have that problem.”
Brown played about as well as anyone could have expected as a starter — he shot 75% from the field, averaged five boards in 20 minutes, played decent defense — so it’s not like he’s returning to the bench with his tail between his legs.
For whatever it’s worth, I agree with the decision, especially considering Johnson was often lost in the shuffle when brought off the bench. I just hope Curry does a better job explaining his roster decisions to his players than he does to the media.
I love this guy, Michael Curry.
a coach who says he’ll change our lineup based on matchups who actually intends to change our lineup based on matchups? that’s nonsense. what, does this guy think he’s better than our old coach or something?
I agree with the decision. Kwame has shot 75% on all of 16 shots. 5 rebounds per 20 minutes is nothing special, and his rebound rate is 34th among centers (and lower than Amir’s).
I think Curry is starting to figure out that this coaching thing isn’t as easy as it seemed in grad school.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
More from Pistons.com courtesy of Eli Zaret.
There was a Hall of Famer thrown into the mix, and Pistons fans were justifiably worried. The guy before him had been outstanding. Why change? Won’t it throw off the chemistry?
They had a four-game losing streak early in the season and the coach said, “It looks like we don’t have a clue at either end of the floor.” Later, when the losing persisted and they lost seven of nine, the coach said, “It’s a different team; it’s going to take time.”
Sound familiar? It should. It was 2004. The new element in the mix was Larry Brown, and 55 games into the season they were an unspectacular 33-22.
Sheed helped of course
Except in 2004 the expectations were still modest. We had lost in the ECF in 03 - so the team wasn’t expected to win sixty games, win the central, and make it to the finals. Also, Larry Brown was a coach that had won a NCAA championship, had been to the NBA Finals, and had a track record of improving teams over the course of a season. He also has a very distinct system he implemented and way of coaching. Basically, the slow start in 03-04 was justified because of all of that.
I wouldn’t say we’re off to a horrible start, but we are 3 games back in the central only 13 games into the season. Taking the top seed this year could possibly mean avoiding Boston and Cleveland until the ECF. Falling to the 4 and having to play an Atlanta, a Cleveland and then a Boston - would be a much harder road than the Pistons have had to take the last few years. The Pistons have more or less glided through rounds 1 and 2.
I’m really interested about what Hamilton and Prince think about Curry. Seeing Prince actively coach from the sidelines while Curry sits on the bench, as has happened a couple times this season, is a pretty strange situation. He’s not simply cheering but directing coverage on screens. Putting the blame on Iverson for the early season mishaps doesn’t really stand the test of even Piston’s history. I want to say the Pistons won 8 out of the first 10 games of Rasheed Wallace tenure. Portland’s system was not anything like Detroit’s. I remember very well that the Piston’s amazing streak of holding opponents under 70 began within a couple weeks of Rasheed Wallace arriving. Personally, I think that stretch of games will stand the test of time as being one of the greatest team defensive accomplishments - and for Rasheed to be that new to the team and that embedded in the defensive philosophy, while it says something about Rasheed, it says more about Larry Brown.
Rasheed fell into place not because he just so happened to be perfect. It was because there was a set style and system in place, where everyone played to their strengths and knew their role - and if they messed up they’d be pulled and have to sit next to the coach and be lectured. I always liked Brown but it’s easy not to now.
The weird thing about Curry is what kind of team does he even want to have? The first month of the season has really been no indication. When Flip came our offense was suppose to improve. That was Flip’s background. To a degree, of course, it did. And right away in Flip’s first season there were new plays, new rotations, new sets that we hadn’t seen from Brown or Carlisle. What kind of team are we even suppose to be under Curry? What’s suppose to improve? Just playing the young guys more? That’s not really happening or working when it is happening. We’re not a defensive team like in the Brown/Carlisle era. It seems like he’d like to try to be Atlanta at times, with the lineups he puts in, but does he have any sort of direction of that type of style. What does Curry know about running a team that plays “small ball”? It almost as if he just thinks that if you throw five small quick players on the court the points and steals will just come. That’s true to an extent but that’s what Phoenix had tried for about five straight seasons and well, we all know how well that worked out, and they have the best passer in league. I think we started 4-0 because Billups, Hamilton and Prince just did what they’ve been use to do for what, like five hundred games now. Take away one of them and everything becomes disjointed, so it makes it seem like it’s Iverson’s arrival. Fact is, I can’t tell what Curry wants to see happen on the court. The guy has no idea what he want his starting lineup to be, what he wants his rotation to be, who he wants to run the point - he has lineups that force players out of their strengths and into roles that they shouldn’t be in. It seems like he just wants the team to keep doing what they’ve been doing but because he’s a former NBA player (barley) they’ll respect him more than some white guy from Minnesota. I just don’t see it. I’m not seeing new sets or plays, I’m not seeing energy or physicality, and I’m not seeing people being used to their strengths. That’s all on the coach. I just would like to know how a Michael Curry Detroit Pistons is suppose to be different than Flip Saunders one. Not how it’s suppose to be better - but how it’s suppose to be different.
Well thought-out post, Juicebox. Definitely some great points!
Juicebox, some good points (esp. about playoff seeding). Some quibbles…
“Seeing Prince actively coach from the sidelines while Curry sits on the bench, as has happened a couple times this season, is a pretty strange situation.”
Yes, but Prince was doing this in the Olympics too. And I’ve read interviews with Curry where he wants everyone, his assistants especially, to take the initiative the way he did when he was (I paraphrased a lot of that).
“The weird thing about Curry is what kind of team does he even want to have?”
He can’t have expected the AI trade. It definitely changes the identity of the team. I think you have to give him a couple weeks on this one.
And before Chauncey left, he did have a plan about not running the offense through him all the time. I think he did have a plan, it just went out the window a bit.
As for the small ball, I don’t think that’s anything he wants to do full time. It was a lineup that worked against a couple teams. And it was to get more offense out there because of Dyess’s absence.
Your concerns about Curry are valid because he’s a first year head coach with only one year as an assistant. But, I think that the point about him not having a plan (even if you’re right) is inconclusive because of the sudden change in the roster.
“The first month of the season has really been no indication. When Flip came our offense was suppose to improve. That was Flip’s background. To a degree, of course, it did. ”
It did to an extraordinary degree. We became a top five offensive team under Flip (we had previously been ranked 17th), while remaining a top five defensive squad. We are now ranked 11th and 21st respectively.
As I said, we’ll need another ten games before we can evaluate this trade. But if these numbers stick, we are in trouble.
Kevin S- I agree with the “extraordinary degree” edit to my statement. I think Flip’s impact to the team was huge and benefetial, I understated myself because it seems like most people don’t agree with that and didn’t want a backlash. I was a huge fan of all three of our last coaches. I think the explanations for the departures of Carlisle and Brown made sense, but Saunders just seemed like a scapegoat to me and I’m still bothered by that. The only real knock on him was that he didn’t develop the bench but would Amir Johnson or Samb have made a difference in the ECF’s last year - I have a hard time believing that.
QD-Good point about about the Iverson trade taking him by surprise. But it really looks like to me like Iverson has no idea what he should be doing on this team - and it’s been long enough that a role should have been defined. It’s as if everyone in the media and coaching staff wants him to “just go out there and be Allen Iverson.” I’m not sure if you can just say to a player and get what you expect to get.
I was really bothered by Curry getting the job in the first place and just was hoping to see something promising - I’ll have to give it more time I know - but skepticism is deserved, at the least. Over the last thirty years in the NBA these are the coaches that have championships: Riley, Poppovich, Brown, Jackson, Tomjonovich, Daly, K.C. Jones and I think Billy Cunningham was the 76ers coach in the 80’s. That’s nearly 30 years and all of those coaches are either in the Hall of Fame or will be. You throw Jerry Sloan’s name in there and you could just call it the be list of the best coaches of the modern NBA era. It easy to write off Jackson because of the rosters he had (even though that’s absurd and shows an ignorance to his importance to those teams)- but you can’t write of 30 years of history as coincidence. Some will say the players made those coaches great not the other way around, but over 30 years, and all the great players to not win championships, it’s a hard point to defend. I’m also not suggesting there was a guy of that caliber out there - but there were experienced coaches with winning records, playoff experience, that had won NBA championships themselves, etc - and it really looks like Dumars just chose one of his pals and instead of the best candidate for the job.
“Saunders just seemed like a scapegoat to me and I’m still bothered by that.”
I agree. Ultimately, he didn’t get the job done. But, it wasn’t all on him like some would have you believe.
I don’t have a problem with Coach Curry not having a defining system like a Mike D’Antoni in Phoenix or a Jerry Sloan in Utah or Big Chief Triangle. You can and should be able to play different styles in order to give yourself a chance to win. Hearing again and again that Utah is a bad matchup for Detroit over the past few years is a good example. How about going small and uptempo? How about going big with Tay at SG? Believing in the system above the players can be a hindrance against a team that has your number. Curry did a nice job of that against Sacramento earlier in the year when Sacramento went big and Curry stayed small. Big and small lineups have their own advantages but it’s still a competition — force your will on the other guy. I think Curry can do that at his best, whether he can get the team to do it all the time remains to be seen. It looks like a mess now but there have been flashes of brilliance and I think Curry is trying to build in versatility that hasn’t been there in the past. I don’t see it as indecision, even if the statements from the coach (Amir’s the starter, Kwame’s the starter, Amir’s the starter) aren’t always consistent.
The only problem I have with Coach Curry so far is he doesn’t seem to do a great job communicating to veteran players how their role is going to change if the role is going to be less desirable or reduced. Rip is the obviously example. Just make it plain that there is a lot of SG talent on the team and Rip is the poorest ballhandler of the group. Rip can play some backup SF and run the old Pistons sets at SG when Bynum is the PG but otherwise his role is changed and reduced. If Rip can improve his ball handling and passing then things will change but until then the mix is what it is. Has Curry said anything like that? I just think Rip is in limbo since the trade and it’s not an emotional thing, it’s about how he fits in on the court. Tell him where he fits in and be honest. It’s not a slam on Rip. And does Curry ever want ‘Sheed to play the post? ‘Sheed has been largely great but I still don’t think he’s in the post enough.
michael curry is a shitty coach, should have kept flip saunders. bench amir johnson dec 7th…..start maxiell and divide the power fowrard position and center between rashweed and dice, no more walt “kermit” hermann either. play alan iverson and piston god richard rip hamilton over 40 minutes a game also…i dont want to see will bynum or erin afflalo in the game either because those fuckers dont do anything. stuckey is ok i guess, he has the right idea its just that the dude cant make a shot or a lay-up is his life depended on it. peace
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That was one crazy-ass post.
Walter Herrmann looks nothing like Kermit Washington.
the only thing that’s been killing us lately is our guards not hitting shots and lack of muscle inside (except for kwame, who can thank this for his misleading numbers).
rip is prone to droughts and isn’t as used to finding his spots in transition as he is from the half court set. with time he’ll be fine. supposedly ai is good so i assume he’ll start hitting shots soon too.
to say curry doesn’t have a system is just not paying attention. he’s finally giving joe d the team joe thinks he’s created. we’re now a combo team. deadly in the half court and buoyed by lots of easy transition baskets. ai, stuck and afflalo will push the ball. utilizing our fast, undersized forwards (amir, max, tay) as finishers (or if the transition d is good around the rim hit rip in his spot for an automatic) and finally realizing the run and gun bench that joe was pissed at flip for ignoring (which is why he got fired, not scapegoating. you don’t openly tell the boss you’re going to do one thing, then do another over and over). if no transition bucket is to be had then prince, stuck, bynum and ai can operate in the half court and play off sheed, kwame, dice and rip.
it’s very different from what we’re used to seeing. scores are going to be way higher and point differences will way scarier in wins and losses. it’s intriguing. as far as i’m concerned this is kind of a hedged bet for dumars. he finally gets to see the team played like he wants it, so the kudos go to him as much as curry, but if it doesn’t work curry will probably take more of the blame.
but whatever about that, FINALLY seeing prince, amir, afflalo, stuck and max running in the open court is a thing of beauty. prince, bynum, max, amir, afflalo and stuck are playing some suffocating defense. it’s gonna be a great year for detroit basketball.
another comment on this scapegoating talk. that only works if all the blame is focused to that one person. this was not the case. joe said it was everybody, chauncey billups case in point. firing flip was a foregone conclusion. flip lost his job during the first game of this past playoffs against the 76′ers. don’t play bench, don’t win game against inferior team, don’t accept responsibility, don’t keep job.
and as for the players coaching. why is that a bad thing? wasn’t it well known that ben and lindsey had as much say in in-game defensive adjustments as anyone else? is there really any need in curry explaining something simple to kwame or amir when he’s got big picture stuff to think about? aren’t tay and sheed two of this people that get mentioned when “basketball iq” is discussed, shouldn’t we utilize that? wouldn’t they be viewed as sort of generals on the ground with a different perspective? i could go on…