With the 39th pick, the Pistons selected Jonas Jerbko from Sweden. Super slooo-mooo dunk below:
Get a good look, because my guess is he won’t get an honest chance to make the roster for a couple of years.
Update: Oh, why not — here’s Jerebko’s crib:
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Dumars said the last two picks would be stashed in Europe for a couple years. Don’t know much about this guy except that DraftExpress had him going in the first round.
I’m guessing Nando De Colo is next. Or some athletic freak who needs to work on his basketball skills.
I’m going to regret this, but this is the first thing I thought of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbs64GvGgPU
I posted this in the Daye thread, but it seems more appropriate here:
There are some perks to drafting Jerebko.
The Pistons would have done better with trading all 4 picks!!!!
According to draftexpress, he’s a good defensive player and shooter. His weakness is ball-handling (which hopefully he can develop in Europe).
They say worst case: Matt Barnes, best case: Matt Harpring.
“Dumars said the last two picks would be stashed in Europe for a couple years”
Seriously when has stashing away European players ever worked? Because I might be wrong but I don’t think I remember any player coming in and being a force that way. Here is an idea, why not just draft the best guy available and either use him or trade the pick to another team for next year. This whole European thing is a joke, either guys are ready to play or you don’t draft them.
“Seriously when has stashing away European players ever worked?”
Marcin Gortat. Luis Scola. Marc Gasol.
Also, it’s the second round. If the guy is going to be a “force,” he would be going in the first round.
Oh, and Mehmet Okur was stashed in Europe for a year before the Pistons brought him over.
u shoiuld rename the post as follows: “The “Jonas Jerbko is NOT a Piston” post”
he’s been traded to the Rockets for cash and a future second round pick
Luis Scola played in Europe, but he wasn’t stashed in Europe after being drafted. Anywho, it worked for Will Bynum and Anthony Parker as well!
That was Chase Budinger who was traded to the Rockets for a future Chase Budinger.
mannie32, I thought the Spurs had the rights to him and then traded him to the Rockets and that’s when he came over. I could be wrong though.
yea my bad, it was Chase Budinger
also about scola, i knew SA had his rights, but i thought they traded those rights to rockets the same year they drafted him (in the same way detroit just did with Chase Budinger)… could be wrong, but pretty sure he played for the Rockets the same year he got drafted
He will be an asset in the future he has very high work ethic.
So, basically you’re telling me the Pistons could have looked like this:
PG Ty Lawson
PF DeJuan Blair
SF Danny Green
SG Chase Budinger
But it looked this this:
SF Austin Daye
SF DaJuan Summers
SF Jonas Jerbko
future picks from Houston
I realize the backup SF role has been hard to fill, but last time I checked, the Pistons ONLY HAVE TWO BIGS! And they draft a whole bunch of small forwards. Fantastic.
Sobering summary, Birdman. Ugh.
PG Ty Lawson
PF DeJuan Blair
SF Danny Green
SG Chase Budinger
But it looked this this:
SF Austin Daye
SF DaJuan Summers
SF Jonas Jerbko
future picks from Houston
I still don’t understand why Blair fell so far… is his injury THAT big of a concern? Did he have awful workouts?
I’m going to withold judgment on Daye, because I know little about him; but I think I’m with Birdman when he says,
I realize the backup SF role has been hard to fill, but last time I checked, the Pistons ONLY HAVE TWO BIGS! And they draft a whole bunch of small forwards. Fantastic.
And now we find out the reason for picking Daye was
From the Freep;
“But he (Dumars) made it clear that he tabbed 6-foot-11 forward Austin Daye 15th overall not only for what he could do on the court, but also for what he won’t do away from the court. He won’t show up late on game days or late to the airport for flights. He won’t show up authority if he disagrees with a coaching decision. ‘Never again will I allow us to be in a position where we’re dealing with issues, where we’re dealing with drama,’ said Dumars. Daye’s selection is more symbolic than anything else”
This is what passes for sound logic in an NBA front office these days? Good Lord.
Oh goodie, the Pistons drafted symbolism.
Obviously Dumars feels burned from the AI saga, but what did he expect when he traded for Allen “Practice?” Iverson?
I can see the scouting report on Daye now.
Negatives: Skinny, didn’t produce much, lacks strength
Positives: Good shooter, great length, very punctual
That Dumars quote makes no damn sense at all unless he thought Blair or the other plausible Pistons picks would have created that sort of drama. I’m no college hoops expert, but I hadn’t heard any stories of character issues with Blair.
Oh well. I think you could defend this draft as follows. We needed a backup SF and two legit star bigs. We were not going to get a legit star big in the draft picking at 15, so let’s go for the backup SF and then get the bigs in free agency (or maybe trade).
Either that, or we’re rebuilding for a year or two.
Either that, or Dumars didn’t do a good job drafting.
“Either that, or Dumars didn’t do a good job drafting.”
AAAHHH, prove us wrong Joe. I feel dirty now, because I have to root against blair’s knees so I can maintain the belief that Joe D is an excellent GM.
The folks running the show here at DBB have done a great job getting up new threads about the draft and each pick. I’ve been free-riding on their efforts so I feel a bit selfish asking, but would it be possible to have one new thread on The Draft As A Whole: Disaster, Some Potential, or What?
Yikes, if that was actually Joe’s logic for drafting Daye, that does not give me a lot of hope for this off-season.
Joe seems kinda drunk with power or something, there’s nobody left in the organization who can hold him accountable, so when his moves don’t work he has a tendency to blame everyone but himself.
Did we fall apart last season because of “off-court issues?” NOOOO! We lost a bunch more games because Joe traded away our best player for someone a lot worse, and because Joe’s handpicked coach was a total disaster.
Joe’s logic is starting to sound like the Curry-ball logic we heard during the year… That being: “Everything I’m doing is fine. It’s their fault, they just need to play goooder, and listen better, and tuck their shorts in more, and dive on the floor and be more intangible-y.”
I don’t hate the Daye pick, but that type of reasoning is what leads teams to long stretches of mediocrity.
TJ, considering that you’re commenting on the “The “Jonas Jerbko is a Piston” post”, I’d say that you’re already posting on the “The Draft As A Whole: Disaster” thread, too.
Can ricky rubio get the nick name “Spanish Fly” before playing a game in the league?
Gabe: It reminds me of baseball player/author Jim Bouton quoting some coach, “I managed great, but boy did they play lousy.”
Craig: I would LOL except I’m crying a little on the inside.
Any words recently on Plaisted or Washington? Can we expect them on the roster next year?
Word is that Washington has a good chance of making the roster next year. Plaisted was hurt much of last year so will probably stay in Europe a year longer.
Both will be on the Summer League team.
TJ: The odd thing is I can’t remember Joe ever saying things like this.
It also just doesn’t make sense for a team in our position. I can see only drafting super “high character guys” if your team is all set talent-wise and you just want to draft a minor role player who won’t rock the boat.
But we have probably the thinnest frontcourt in the entire league at the moment! I don’t care how “high character” our team is as a whole, if Kwame and Max are the only bigs on the roster we’re going to suck.
@ Gabe:
“Everything I’m doing is fine. It’s their fault, they just need to play goooder, and listen better, and tuck their shorts in more, and dive on the floor and be more intangible-y.”
That was gold! Pure gold!
As long as we didn’t get Mullens at 15 I guess I’m happy with the pick(though I really didn’t want Daye either), but I can’t for the life of me figure out why we passed on Blair at 35!? That’s just ridiculous. We probably could have gotten Summers at 39, and then Jerebko at 44 if they really wanted him. I just think Blair’s talent, regardless of injury history, was too good to pass up. I think that was definitely a draft blunder there. His coach at Pitt said he called EVERY SINGLE NBA team and told them that he had had no problems with his knees the entire time he was at Pitt. So, unless there was something the medical staff uncovered, there shouldn’t have been a problem drafting him in my opinion. Especially in the second round when many projected him to go in the lottery!
Joe definitely is not the best drafter but let’s hope he makes some strategic moves in free agency to help right this ship before it gets wrecked.
I love Washington. Just wanted to get that out there.
And yes, MP and Colin, in an absolutely homosexual way.
“Can ricky rubio get the nick name “Spanish Fly” before playing a game in the league?”
He just got it. That’s genius.
So our off-season so far has consisted of letting Amir go for a guy we want to waive so that we’re only responsible for part of his cap space and drafting four small forwards? I’m not even going to try understanding/predicting what Dumars is doing, just going to sit back and wait to see how everything unfolds. The ‘07 draft didn’t make any sense either when we used both our first round picks to draft shooting guards when we really could have used some big men, so I’m not going to freak out (partially because I really like Summers). When it comes to big men, we do know that Dumars prefers veterans. Or maybe it’s…
VIVA LA SMALLBALL!!!!
Curryplay, Viva La Smallball
“We used to rule the league / our bigs could get any rebound they pleased / now in the playoffs it’s an early exit / The Cavaliers punched our ticket /
For some reason we can’t explain / Curry’s got small balls on his brain / Never will we again see / the days when we ruled the league”
Summer League Roster:
Bynum, Sharpe, Plaisted, Washington, Daye, Summers, Jerebko
There’s room for five more. Probably need some Guards and Big Men to round out the SF-heavy roster.
Here are some guys that were on DraftExpress’s mock that they could go after:
Josh Heytvelt PF (Daye’s teammate)
Dionte Christmas SG
Jarel McNeal PF (Worked out for Pistons)
Alade Aminu PF
NBA Roundtable has an article about Orlando and its cap concerns today, which suggests that Gortat is much more ‘gettable’ after the Vinsanity trade.
I’m all for signing him, personally, and I think we could do it for > 5 mil.
Does this draft make signing him more likely?
brgulker, I was thinking the same thing.
Should be ‘less than’ not ‘greater than’ above.
Dionte Christmas wasn’t drafted? I think the Pistons should bring him in.
Correction: Jarel McNeal is a PG not a PF. Another PG (and Daye teammate) is Jeremy Pargo who also worked out for the Pistons.
Orlando did say they were willing to pay the luxury tax, but I can’t believe they’d pay it for both of those guys since they are already over the limit. Gortat would be a very good fit if we could get him. I’m convinced if he played 30 mpg, he would average a double/double with 2 blocks on 55% shooting.
I think the post of the day should be “what dumb moves will the Pistons make next”
I love this pick. Is Hakan Andersson doing some freelance scouting for Joe D now? Its about time that the Pistons started taking advantage of the Sweden-to-Detroit talent pipeline that the Red Wings have been using for years.
I’m ok with the draft, we need veteran bigs, 2 rookies would do no good for this team, especially not two off this weak draft. The only way we can get the bigs we need is through trade or free agency.
I hate it when we do things that are almost universally panned by the folks on here. This is a smart group, and obviously nobody is right 100% of the time, but when everybody gives a collective WTF it has me pretty concerned. Kudos to San Antonio for making some kick ass moves.
Ok Detroit lets get over the bad draft picks, I think Joe can make it up to us if we can sign Klieza, Gortat and another free agent. I know you probably thinking who the hell is Klieza but he’s young, tuff and can shoot the three. Plus I like the fight i seen out of him in the Denver vs Lakers series.
note: these guys won’t break the bank and we getting good players in return. Gordan overrated and Boozer overpriced, i’ll rather get the money to Mcdyess before boozer.
I hate it when we do things that are almost universally panned by the folks on here. This is a smart group, and obviously nobody is right 100% of the time, but when everybody gives a collective WTF it has me pretty concerned. Kudos to San Antonio for making some kick ass moves.
Purdy good point, I think.
@joe
if we can sign Klieza
WHAT? Klieza is almost worthless, a bigger version of Delfino AT BEST.
I know Klieza’s one or two 30-point outbursts are tempting, but he’s so inconsistent. He just disappears for weeks at a time. I hope he’s not on Joe’s radar.
Which Joe?
I kid, I kid.
I hate it when we do things that are almost universally panned by the folks on here. This is a smart group, and obviously nobody is right 100% of the time, but when everybody gives a collective WTF it has me pretty concerned.
I’m probably the biggest DBB Summers fan, but there’s no way I can rationalize taking him over Blair. That said, I’m still super duper psyched we actually got him. How often does that happen, your team actually takes the guy you want them too? They also took the guy I didn’t want them to, but oh well…
Kudos to San Antonio for making some kick ass moves.
So Buford’s moved spare parts for a SF who’s going to get them 20 ppg and used a second round pick to draft one of the best rebounders in NCAA history. And Dumars gave up Amir for one of those previously mentioned spare parts, who is going to be waived and will resign with Buford for vet minimum, and drafted four small forwards. Um. Buford has an early lead.
Buford has an early lead.
Lol, well-said. And, a much longer track record and a lot more bling on his ring fingers.
Matt Watson,
Who is Tim Povtak? If you get a chance, tell him he’s an idiot.
Thanks,
Roll The Dyess
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/06/26/eastern-conference-draft-grades/
@ Roll the Dyess:
I think I would have to agree.
From your link, as an example:
Cleveland Cavaliers: A
Selections: Christian Eyenga (No. 30), Danny Green (46th),
Comments: The Cavs did their work two days before when they traded for Shaquille O’Neal, believing he can help LeBron James win his first NBA title. Eyenga, who is from the Congo, has potential but won’t be part of this drive to the title.
Uh, what? If one is grading the draft, which Cleveland obviously butchered, how does a trade they made not related to the draft boost their grade to an A? Idiot. (I guess picks were involved, but still, idiot)
Interestingly, I don’t disagree with him on Detroit.
Another example,
Orlando Magic: B
Selections: None
Comments: The Magic did their thing when they traded for Vince Carter earlier in the day, then sat out a terrible draft. They will load up on free agents for their summer league team, then try to fill up their roster with lower-priced guys.
How does one get a grade, much less a B, when one does not complete the assignment, as it were. Orlando DIDN’T draft anyone. So let’s give them an arbitrary yet high grade.
Oh, and the idiot failed to note how trading for VC has absolutely put a stranglehold on Orlando’s financial situation. They have less than zero flexibility now and assuming they don’t resign Gortat, have no backup for Howard.
Watch Blair give San Antonio about 8 and 8 in 20 mpg next year while ‘Sheed and Timmeh yuck it up on the bench. Ugh.
brgulker, i’m guessing there’s a vet out there willing to take the minimum to back up howard. Happens on most championship contenders.
@joejoejoe
My prediction is that Blair, within the first month or so, takes over the starting job next to Timmy and finishes the year averaging 10/10/2spg in 28 mpg. Not quite ROTY (probably Curry, because of the sheer number of shots he’ll get playing moneyball), but All-Rookie team for sure. He’s basically going to be Al Horford for the Spurs.
We fucked up so big time.
C’mon. I would’ve taken Blair too but he’s not going to be anything more than a servicable starter (if all goes well). And he’s going to need a year or two to become that.
He needs to add a jumper to out to ten feet. He still will have trouble with the pick and roll. And he’s going to have more shots blocked in the pros than he did in college.
I honestly don’t think he needs to add shit, in his situation. Why does he need to hit a jumper out to ten feet when he’s got Timmy D, Jefferson, Parker, Ginobli, Mason, Hill, Finley, etc. who will be taking the jumpers? He’s going to average 10/10 just from putbacks alone.
@Joel:
I think you’re right and it sucks.
Regardless of what he puts up next year, he is what he is. He’s 20 years old, same age as BJ Mullens. He was an amazing rebounder, something that translates well to the next level. He was a very effective and efficient scorer. He’s undersized, but due to his conference he went up against NBA bodies and still dominated. He has knee trouble, but it hasn’t affected his play for two years (and I’m willing to bet he has more knee left than Antonio McDyess…).
Now he’s playing for a team with a big man who can defend centers, open the lane, and is one of the best post passers out there - and with Jefferson, Parker, and Manu, he will not have ANY pressure on him to score. The dude is going to gobble up bebounds (especially oddensibe), beat people up, and eat babies. It doesn’t matter what his numbers are/will be, I just wish I felt as good about the Pistons as Spurs fans are probably feeling right now.
Did anyone else watch the “Cribs” video if this Swedish guy we picked up?
Doucher.
Patty Mills? Jodie Meeks? Haytvelt? Somebody? Anybody?
We’re arguing about fucking up over not taking a 6′6, 277 power forward with blown knees?
What is, idiots on Potential Mountain who pound fact based on several isolated theories.
I’ll take Worst Professional Sports Drafts for 500, Alex.
I’m not going to defend the draft as a whole - Joe D gets no benefit of the doubt given his history, and the strategy does look questionable - but Blair scares the heck out of me, and I’m glad the Pistons passed. ACL injuries - and the surgery to repair them - leave lasting damage. And the NBA season is nothing like the college season in terms of strain and pounding. He might be great, but it’s much more likely that he’ll give a team 10-20 min for 50 or so games a year, that he’ll spend half his time bathing in ice, and that every season his knees will be shot by the time the playoffs roll around.
I read through about 10 posts and decided it was pointless to read the rest.
1) Let’s all just commit to Jonas’s nickname being “The Chef”.
2) I don’t know why any of you would want a 6′6″ 277 lb power forward on our team. That’s not the size we need in our frontcourt, we need height, not width. The fact that he has had surgery on both knees and is overweight is an immediate red flag. You don’t spend a middle first round pick on a guy who has major health concerns before even getting into the league. The fact that Blair was projected in the first round given he is severely under-sized and lacks the explosiveness of a Millsap/Maxiell necessary to be successful as an undersized PF is reason enough to take Daye over him.
3) Even at 35 I liked Summers over Blair. It’s pretty obvious what Joe D. is trying to do here. He drafted 3 SFs and has a 4th in Walter Sharpe. Notice how all 4 of these guys have one thing in common? They’re all at least 6′8″ and in their own way could develop into a player that could legitimately d up Lebron and/or other oversized SFs. If Daye can add 25-30 lbs and be 6′11/220, he’d have the length and quickness to be able to play off of Lebron to take away the drive while still being able to close on the jumper. Given the Shaq trade, it looks like Lebron will be putting off getting a post game for at least another season. Summers is 6′8″ and 230s…quick and long. Another player who could develop into a key defender on Lebron. The Chef though will be the ultimate lebron stopper at 6′8″ and filled with recipes for success.
Lastly, I think everyone knows that Daye was an obvious second option to Earl Clark who was taken one pick before us. If Clark had still been on the board, Joe D. would have passed on Daye.
4) You guys are seriously crapping all over Joe D. and for little reason. He made a calculated risk in trading billups away and it was one that everyone agreed could play to our favor if things worked out. You same people were the ones getting all excited about how Iverson was saying all the right things. If Iverson had accepted his role in Detroit, or if Curry had established any semblance of leadership from a coaching perspective, there would not have been nearly as many locker room issues last season. Iverson put up the worst numbers of his career and then got bitchy and refused to come off the bench. That is not on Joe D. That is on Iverson. And the trade to begin with was a smart one considering the economic turmoil the city of Detroit is in resulting in less disposable income for their fan base and ultimately lower ticket sales. He read the economy perfectly and got us WAY under a salary cap which is likely to be reduced.
My biggest knock on Dumars right now is hiring Curry in the first place. It puts us in a very difficult position to entice players to Detroit in 2010 free agency. Next season isn’t looking good and either Curry gets fired putting our coaching position up in the air (not good for signing a superstar free agent), or he doesn’t our season still isn’t that great making Detroit less interesting of a city than NYC, Miami, Cleveland, or really anywhere else not named Oklahoma City or Charlotte.
There’s no guarantee that any player you draft is going to stay healthy, and players with Blair’s bulk do tend to have shorter careers, even if they don’t come into the league with injury red-flags (which he definitely already has).
But, we’re not arguing over “a 6′6″ power forward with blown knees.” We’re arguing over one of the best rebounder’s in college basketball history.
Here’s a good breakdown of Blair statistically (he’s #2 on the list):
http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/0809ew12.htm
In sum: he had a higher rebound rate than Barkley, Brand, and Webber, and scored 22.8 points per/40 minutes, on almost 60% shooting.
There is a definite chance Blair will fall out of the league because of injuries fairly early, maybe even within 5-7 years. So there is that strike against him.
But there is almost no statistical or historical basis for a player as good as he was in college not being a solid NBA player. Why not let him have his short, productive career with us?
And most importantly, HE FIT A NEED! How many bigs can we possibly sign for $20m? Now we absolutely HAVE to sign at least 2 bigs, or next season is pretty much over before it begins. Joe D left himself absolutely no wiggle room.
And lets not forget that the 6′6 forward with bad knees completely outplayed the 2nd pick in the draft who is almost a foot taller, but yeah he is so not worth spending the 39th pick on no siree.
Even after a full nights rest I still want to throttle Joe with my bare hands. If he gives Gordon 11 mil per year I will proceed to light myself on fire.
Should have read “35th pick” my bad.
nice writeup james. lets just see how it all turns out. we seriously have NO idea what is going to happen with the draftees and who we will end up getting with the cap space. in the meantime, it looks like joe d has a plan thats not sitting on the cap space until 2010, which is good enough for me.
I don’t think Dumars was going after SFs to guard Lebron. I think he’s going after athletic, mobile big men.
Dumars and Curry have talked a lot about wanting to be a more up tempo team. With Sheed and Dyess likely gone, that will probably be more possible. Like Chad Ford said, Dumars went with 3 players (4, if you count Sharpe) that could play both forward positions and create mismatches at both with the hopes that one or two will pan out.
I’m not saying this is a good plan or a bad one, just my guess as to why Dajuan Summers and not DeJuan Blair.
If this is the case, and Dumars is trying to build an uptempo team, then I hope he goes for Gortat. He’s got good size and runs the court really well. That’s a pretty rare combination.
QD:
Good analysis, I think you’re right about that being Joe’s plan. The problem that I can foresee though is Orlando’s system works because they have the best defensive (and rebounding) center in the league. If you’re going with a smaller PF, you need that beast at C to really make it worthwhile.
And 100% agreed that Gortat would be a very nice fit. He’s not Dwight Howard, but he’s a huge upgrade over Kwame.
I will say, I’m still extremely skeptical that Curry will actually allow the team to go uptempo. In the past, when he’s been asked about allowing the team to run more, he’s put in so many qualifiers in his answers that I really, really doubt he would consider it unless strictly ordered to by Joe.
Remember this past year when Curry went with smallball, and we still played at the slowest pace in the NBA? He’s been open about the fact that his main coaching influence is Doug Collins, one of the all time, grind-it-out style coaches. Maybe Curry will show more flexibility next season, but if he doesn’t, I think he’s a pretty awful fit for a roster built for an uptempo attack.
If you look at this draft in terms of us not getting back to the ec finals for 3 to 5yr.s then I like it ,lets face it its very unlikely we get there before then anyway if Blair does have a short career in store for him then whats the point of drafting him to be your pf of the future every team in the league who had a first round draft pick past on this guy with the exception of the 7 or 8 teams does that make the rest of them idiots for passing on him and one more point we already have Max who’s very similar and probably going to be hard to trade maybe Joe just didn’t see the point in having two guys that do the same thing.
Thats supposed to read with the exception of the first seven or eight teams.
Does anyone else find it odd that Joe Dumars picked Austin Daye because of his high character and ability to show up for games, but at the same time Dumars has shown significant interest in Carlos Boozer, who babies his way out of a large percentage of games and who is one of the greediest players in the NBA?
Boozer is also today locked in very messy divorce proceedings from his wife, reportedly due to Boozer’s chronic infidelity. I mention this because in the Freep’s post-draft article Michael Curry attributed the Pistons’ Sunday losses to players being out late on Saturday night, and said how mad Joe was about that.
http://www.freep.com/article/20090626/COL08/906260485/?imw=Y
Sounds like Boozer has a knack for finding new friends to keep him out late on Saturdays too.
If you’re going to make decisions based on a flawed strategy, can you at least be consistent with that flawed strategy? Else it just gets too confusing for dumb fans like me.
And lets not forget that the 6′6 forward with bad knees completely outplayed the 2nd pick in the draft who is almost a foot taller, but yeah he is so not worth spending the 39th pick on no siree.
Yeah, but that’s one game. Daniel “Breasticles” Gibson made Rip look bad in the 2007 ECF. Who would you rather have?
However, I totally agree with the 39th thing.
if anyone thinks we’re heading into the new season with only maxiell and kwame as our bigs, u really do have little faith inb dumars
let’s hold off judgement on dumars until we sign our free agents please… way i see it, tayshaun needed a backup, has for years now… now we have 5 SFs (2 from last year, 3 from this year) we can evaluate and hope that ONE of them turn out good, even if one of them does thats a huge bonus
then we use free agency/trades to pick up some bigs… whether it’s birdman, boozer, charlie v, david lee, amare’, tyson chandler, millsap, or some combination of them
preferably some combination.
Anyone else excited for summer league yet? I wanna see what these guys can do.
“Yeah, but that’s one game. Daniel “Breasticles” Gibson made Rip look bad in the 2007 ECF. Who would you rather have?”
I would have said that it was the our team that made Gibson look good due to the whole not guarding him and all, but point taken it was only one game.
“However, I totally agree with the 39th thing.”
And really I think thats what had most of us scratching our heads about this draft. If we had picked Blair at 15 most of the consensus around here would have been “solid pick” instad of “what the fuck” and if dumars just had to have this Daye kid he had three friggin second round picks to move up and get him if he thought he would go earlier (which I highly doubt) Regardless the pick was a big reach and then he compounded it by wasting the last two picks on some swedish guy that will never EVER play for us and giving away Budinger (who might have helped next year) for nothing. Anyway you look at it this draft was another wasted year and we have to rely on a pretty flawed free agent crop to bail us out. In my opinion either he makes a huge trade or he flips Rip, Tay and others for some first round picks and starts building this team according to his “Character, defense, work ethic” ethos. I think Joe is just chasing his tail at this point.
Also of note, SLAM gives us an A- on the draft. Huh.
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2009/06/2009-nba-draft-grades-pt-1/
I refuse to argue about a 6′6 fatass that won’t have anything left in 4 years, whose alternate universe Pistons employment wouldn’t have netted even 4 more wins from the previous year … he’s irrelevant, like most of the players this year. Worst. Draft. Something. Donuts.
We’re arguing over one of the best rebounder’s in college basketball history.
And you keep comin’ up with reasons to whine about this guy you’ve all built up in your heads, and that point’s easy to laugh at …
Andre Ware had a college passing record, therefore, he should have been the Black Montana. Only, he couldn’t throw for even shit accuracy, and his decision making was terrible.
I appreciate the spirit of questioning Dumars, but this is hardly the draft or the big reason to do it.
Sauce I think the point is not Blair himself but what he represents. Dumars has been reaching in drafts for YEARS and not gotten called on it. Blair would have been a nice solid pick and a high energy guy that could come in and help now, I agree that from pick 8 on in the draft was a total crapshoot so then why not take a solid guy that proved in college he could a. win and b. compete on the big stage against the best of his peers what do you have to lose? The guy would cost perhaps 2 mil per year for two years even if he blows out his knees. I mean who fits the pistons profile more Blair or Daye? What do we stand for anyway? Are we a defense first blue collar team or are we a bunch of raw skinny jump shooters, I don’t think Joe himself knows anymore.
Also, RE: Detroit’s Big Plans to Form Walking Hypocrisy by Obtaining Ben Gordon, Carlos Boozer, Zach Randolph (from rumors in a Previous Off-Season) …
It should be obvious that out-of-town writers practically pray for their teams’ big mistakes to just retire .. and possibly disappear, like Detroit’s actually did once, with Bison Dele.
The next best thing is writing your team’s biggest mistakes off to some other team you don’t like, in exchange for whatever will make that sound interesting enough to begin the national gossip circuit.
Wouldn’t you know, Detroit makes out-of-towners cringe. You don’t have to say anything but “Detroit.”
Naturally, this is a popular destination to do the write-off.
I’m not paying any attention, except to what writers show themselves to be “not Detroit’s friend.”
Blair represents irrelevance, like everyone past Blake Griffin in this draft.
He couldn’t get the #1 pick from the Clips for any amount, or maybe Joe didn’t want to try … I mean that’s seemingly what you guys were looking for?
Either that or you’re unaccustomed to being an irrelevant team that can’t just flip a GM switch and cheat-mode a LeBron James like I do a lot on whatever team I’d like to pwn with when I play NBA 2kx.
There was no one draft pick or free agent in 2009 that can help us ‘right now.’ You are living in the summer of 2008, before we gave away our Tim Duncan for cap space.
I am the king of Let’s Fire Joe Dumars. Don’t you forget it.
This ain’t a reason why.
@Sauce:
I’ve read your last three posts, like, three times, and still have no idea what the shit you’re talking about. Did you eat poop for dinner man?
Seriously, can you explain this shit in layman’s terms?
Garrett, Chad Ford gave the Pistons a “B+.” He’s one of the only writers handing out grades that’s watched and scouted all these players.
I trust him and draftexpress the most.
@ Mike Payne:
I had Tilapia, and unless you’re personal friends with Debbie, I can’t let you in.
All in all, I’m not totally unhappy with the draft. I would have preferred Earl Clark (Fuck you, Phoenix.), but I like Daye’s upside. I kind of forgot about DaJuan Summers, but then again so did most teams. Jerebko got praise from Fraschilla, so I’ll go with it since I’m a little behind on my Swedish league knowledge. I really expected taking Danny Green after Marcus Thornton came off the board. I would have felt better about the draft as a whole if we’d kept Budinger - although, I’ve been reading he looked bad in workouts. Wait, so did Daye. Shit.
In Joe D. We Trust is long gone in my book, but I ain’t mad.
Chad Ford gave the Pistons a “B+.” He’s one of the only writers handing out grades that’s watched and scouted all these players.
His mock right before the draft had the Pistons taking Daye and Summers. Part of that grade is likely self-gratification.
Guess what year Chad Ford gave the Pistons an A+ for their draft…
This is good for a laugh:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/d03/story?id=1573414
But, Chad Ford has actually watched all these guy’s play and has formed opinions on them of his own. As has draftexpress. The rest of these NBA writers handing out grades are going on hearsay.
I wasn’t crazy about the pick, but I also wasn’t crazy about Rodney Stuckey, Arron Afflalo or Jason Maxiell either. And I wasn’t crazy about that new Will Bynum guy either. Now, I love all those players.
I definitely trust Draftexpress a lot more than Chad Ford, mainly because they combine traditional scouting with very in-depth statistical analysis. Also I like that Draftexpress is completely transparent with their scouting, anyone can read everything they’ve ever written about every player in their database.
Though, for the record, Chad Ford gave San Antonio’s draft an A+ this year, and said if Blair is healthy, he is “the steal of the draft.” But, if Chad’s history of “A+ drafts” is any indication, maybe San Antonio shouldn’t get too excited
WAY OT: Mitt “The Kandi Man” Romney: I thought this was hilarious. Disclaimer: I am not endorsing this as accurate. No flame wars please. It is just funny. Who let the dogs out?
Also, I thought that fanhouse article about Orlando going after Sheed and Bass was strange. The article says they plan on losing Gortat to FA. I assume that’s because they can’t afford him. How are they going to afford Sheed and Bass, then. Or do they simply feel that Gortat isn’t as good a fit? Can they even sign free agents since they’re over the cap? Don’t you need to have an MLE or another exception to sign someone?
This is good for a laugh:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nbadraft/d03/story?id=1573414
You know that kind of puts this whole thing in perspective. Looking through that list (and cringing over Melo, Dwade, Bosch, sh#t even Kaman), it really is just a bunch of stiffs in the 2nd round with the occasional name that’s still in the league.
I think. Maybe Blair becomes B-Baby in a year or 2. Nice value for the pick, but still don’t give a sh#t about the guy and you can do better elsewhere.
Let’s all wait until Jul 1, then the fun begins…
Transformers II is an art film.
Defor
Jun 26th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
On Blair he might be a star and last ten fifteen yrs. in the league on the other hand he’s played what 25 to 30 games a yr. in colledge at 1 to 2 games a week how’s his knees gonna hold up playing 90 to a hundred games a yr. I mean i’ve seen Stuckey this last yr. sitting on the bench late in games with Ice on his knee’s and his knee’s are fine Kandar is the best in the bussiness and i believe Joe listens to him ,if he says his knee’s aren’t going to hold up I got to believe him, not sure if thats what went down but there’s a reason every team in the league pass on him in the first round and what 8 or nine of them paased on him in the second I guess 12 months from now we’ll see
By the way, the PistonPowered article about how Dumars likes to draft for wingspan is dead on.
Free agency/ trades this year are the difference between a second round playoff exit and the latter part of the lottery.
That said the tea leaves and toilet bowl stains seem to point to the following Chinese placemat zodic…..
1> Joe D’s love affair with Gordon will land him in the back court with Stuckey next year. This is a beautiful all offense and very offensive defense back court leaving us open to the nauseating prospect of being Rondoed in the playoffs like Chicago was last year.
–I demand the guillotine foul machine of the bad boys –
2> Curry wins the conflict with the star “Rip” as Joe D. DOES NOT want to reinact last years back court logjam the cancer will not spread. A bumbling coach gets miraculously lucky after handling the answer situation with the grace of toilet paper.
3> Enter the masked big man via trade ( I have a hunch booze does not opt out as Dumars will wisely not overpay and he wants to show he does not need bandaids to make it through a 30 game season he then cleans up in 2010 where some lame team that could not land the one super star that opts out but saved cap space finds only Booze on the barren liquor shelf)— I have an odd feeling we end up with someone fatally flawed anyway via trade Tyson Chandler or one of the clippers big man retreads.
4> The rest of the precious 19 mil is spent on free agent x which seems to be a Millsap or some other productive middling player that will keep us around 15 in the draft the following year.
Don’t get me wrong. I trust in Joe D. but he is not a man of Papal infallability…. ugh his options seem hopelessly limited in the face of the growing eastern beasts (orlando and cleveland)
2009 LINE UP
PG-Stuckey, Bynum
SG-Gordon, Afflalo
SF-Prince, Random Draft pick (Daye, Summers) Afflalo
PF-Millsap, Maxielle, (Dyess if he follows his broken heart again)
C- Kaman/Chandler/brand x via rip trade, Dyess
Pergatory - Kwame (opt out or there is a horse head in your future)
Can someone please help me see the dominoes fall differently? This is not a championship roster and means I’ll have to switch from beer to tequila/whiskey for my pistons following. No one wins there……
OKC should have traded up to get Thabeet and also taken Daye. Then, they should have taken on Prince’s contract. Then went after Shawn Livingston.
SKINNY/WINGSPAN BALL
PG: Shawn Livingston
SG: Kevin Durant
SF: Tayshaun Prince
PF: Austin Daye
C: Hasheem Thabeet
This team should run a zone exclusively in which they all link hands and span the width of the court.
Want to know something funny? When I traded Chhauncey I did it so I could get Charlie V. cuz that seemed smart. Then I’m gettin Gordon so he can play on the floor with Charlie V. and evry team we play scores 110 cuz that seems neat. Then I made excuses all year for an awkward point guard who CANNOT shoot or distribute and thought it would be clever to take an All Star shooting guard and team him with 1) a pg who can’t distribute and 2) another pg who won’t. Just to make sure he was as unhappy as possible, I benched him after trading the most stabilizing pg the league has had over the last six years. I’m sticking with Curry until everyone admits I’m smarter than everyone else and people applaud my keen insticts. And my charity. Who else but me has the heart to draft one kid who got bit by a tse-tse fly and another who is anorexic?
I speak leeROYbrown, and yes, I think you’re going to have to upgrade the proof.
“THE GUILLOTINE FOUL MACHINE” <— That’s some dope phrasing, I like you, even if your name isn’t really LeeROYbrown.
I doubt Rip loses the conflict with Curry. Rip is paid more and has more years on his contract. Plus, he’ll be hard to trade. Curry, on the other hand, can be fired at any time. The onus is on him to fix things.
If Rip goes, it’s because Dumars gets another player he wants. He won’t trade Rip for crap just to appease Curry.
QD, agreed. Stranger things have happened (Snaqs O’Meal traded to PHX), but the odds are heavy that Rip wins a war with Curry.
Kobe opt out!!! And Joe wanna use our big salary cap to get him to detroit!!!
Season G FG FGA 3PM 3PA FT FTA TRB AST STL
Career 67 275 577 62 147 176 210 386 69 45
Career 69 377 594 1 4 144 232 511 53 41
BLK TO PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% PTS TRB AST
124 129 176 778 .476 .421 .838 11.6 5.7 1.02
156 101 176 899 .635 .250 .621 13.0 7.4 0.8
Top line is Austin Daye (6-11 200)
Bottom line is Rasheed Wallace (6-10 225)
Daye is already a good 3 pt shooter, and at worst, an average shot inside the arc, throw 20 pounds on him and nice low post move or two and he is a SOLID 4.
I think this is a great pick with exceptional upside.
We are not getting Chris Kaman.
maybee crazy or imposible, but ould we get d.lee and milsap this summer?
C-Milsap
PF D lee
SF TAY
SG RIP
PG STUCKY
s
seems like the fan would like it, tough working, younger, prob only 5 seed but back to pistons style hoops.
Silver lining in the Daye draft: his name is an anagram for “Adieu Nasty.”
“Austin Daye (6-11 200)
Pretty sure ESPN listed him at 181 lbs. on draft night. I’m almost 6′ and around the 170 mark. “Beanpole” is generous. I wish this guy was 200lbs, but I’m pretty sure if that were the case he would’ve gone top 10 at least. As has been said many times, he’s a potential star easily with his size and shooting ability, but he’s definitely a couple years away.
Viva la 2012!!!
Rob G:
You should incorporate that into your dissertation.
QD: The problem is that Chad Ford seemed to give everyone a B+. Going through each team, there barely seemed to be a 2nd round pick he didn’t like. Even the teams he wrote negative comments about, he winds up saying “I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt B-”
The world may be coming to an end. This is John Hollinger’s take on the Pistons’ draft from ESPN:
Best of the rest:
• Detroit also did well getting Austin Daye, a star talent at No. 15, and DaJuan Summers and Jonas Jerebko early in the second round.
I just pasted the mention of the Pistons because the whole article isn’t very interesting. Short and sweet, really. Due to his normal disdain for Detroit, I’m surprised he didn’t rip the team for something. No mathematical equation, I suppose?
Joel I thought the workouts had him Daye listed at 192 ,I wouldn,t be surprised to see him in the 197 to 200 range by traing camp although he’ll probably lose a couple of pounds in camp I’m sure one of the first thing Kandar will do getting lifting weights it won’t be long before he can lift 185lbs ten times ,but its gonna be while before he hits 210 to 220 probably a yr too 2 yrs and may never hit 230,but if he can be a cross between Rashard lewis and Rasheed wallace then its a terrific pick.Also with OKC now having 2 centers we won’t have to worry about bidding against them for Gortat i’m hoping he’s our next center.On Gordon he would be okay if we could get him for high 8mil to low 9mil range. I don’t know about our 4 spot there aren’t any good answers available for there although I wouldn’t mind a healthy Brand .
I wouldn’t mind a healthy Brand.
I’d bet Philly wouldn’t, either.
It’s my sincerest hope that the “Jonas Jerebko is a Piston” thread go over 200 comments.
Someone said that John Hollinger had Austin Daye as is 4th best player in the draft. Can some Hollinger fan explain how the calculations of his draft rating work.
In case anyone cares, the anagram for Jerebko is “Jab Joker Nose.”
QD:
I’m not sure exactly how Hollinger’s rating works, but Ed Weiland of hoopsanalyst is another guy who rates prospects almost entirely on stats, and his comps for Austin Daye are pretty good as well.
Here’s where Weiland talks about Daye, (he’s #1 on the list of “combo forwards”):
http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/0809ew11.htm
I’m guessing that what Hollinger’s projections like about Daye are his block shot, steal and rebound rates in college, which are all very good. Especially his blocked shot rate, which is especially high (averaged over 3 blocks per/40 minutes).
I remember in Hollinger’s explanation of his prospect rater that what he tried to do was pinpoint which players had the size/athleticism to succeed in the NBA, so his system weights the stats that are typically “athletic markers” very heavily. His theory is that guards who average a lot of steals, and bigs who average a lot of blocks are showing NBA caliber size/athleticism, and those players are more likely to succeed.
QD…Here is what Hollinger says about his ranking of draft prospects and why Daye projects well in his opinion.
“The basic idea is to use the NBA’s past to predict its future. The Draft Rater looks back at prospects from past drafts and then, using regression analysis, identifies which attributes determined pro success and which didn’t. Austin Daye might not have had a great season, but the Draft Rater looks favorably upon a 6-foot-11 small forward who can shoot (assuming he can play the 3 in the NBA). His numbers were strongest in the categories that project best to the pros, including 42.9 percent shooting percentage on 3s and 2.1 blocks per game, which is why he moves all the way up to No. 4 on this list.”
Captain conjecture dons the paper hat.
Just a gut feeling and blog o’ sphere thoughts coalescing.
It seems likely Rip is shipped not because of a head to head conflict indian leg rasslin’ style with Curry. But rather Joe D. wants 3’s, crunch time shooting with ice in the veins and youth not to mention the rumor mill. Of the free agents out there Joe D. seems to be willing and wanting to wrangle Gordon. If this is the case it would make sense that he would shop with trading pieces (the extra guard ie Rip) for a better big than is available via free agency. I am by no means a big Gordon fan. His ball handling seems suspect, his D is porous and volume shooting will never go out of style for him. I truly hope he doesn’t pull the trigger on Gordon but my gut and the bits of inter web flotsam seem to point in that direction. Da dominoes then seem to lead to Curry staying and Rip shipping. with this and the tin foil had I have on loan from Pistons management there seems to be trouble a brewin
Hey guys, how would you feel about Toronto doing a sign and trade for Shawn Marion and we trade Tay straight up for him and give him Tay’s $10M salary slot? We would still need to make our planned moves to bring in 2 good Bigs, but just wanted to get your thoughts on Marion at the 3 spot.
If they could make it a 2 yr deal it be okay ,but i wonder if trading tay for a 4 or 5 might be a better alternative at this point. Anyone know what the cash considerations was for trading Chase Budinger is it cash for this yr. or next yr. or what?Since it looks like Boozer is moving outa our price range I wonder if Joe is looking at Lee if he can’t get Millsap.
Whether or not JoeD wants to trade Rip I don’t know. But, it will be a hard contract to move. So, I don’t see it happening unless it’s for a similarly long contract (for example, if Philly decides they made a mistake with Brand and want to roll with Thad Young at the 4). Or maybe they get rid of an unhappy Dalembert and get a long term SG in his place.
Oh, and thanks Jim and Gabe on the explanation. Sounds like Daye has potential as a 3. I guess it all comes down to whether he has the lateral quickness to defend on the perimeter and whether he can improve his ball handling and finishing with contact enough on offense. The shooting and shot blocking are already there.
Why sign Gordon when we could feasibly sign Joe Johnson next year who can do everything Ben Gordon can but better?
I pretty strongly disagree with the criticism here. The only pick we have a reasonable expectation of converting into a rotation player is #15. The rest are just lottery tickets. Saying we should have taken bigs to shore up a current roster deficiency makes little sense. You don’t solve today’s roster issues with today’s second rounders. You’d be lucky to solve tomorrow’s roster deficiencies with today’s second rounders.
In relevant off-season moves so far we have 1. Traded amir for cap 2. Drafted at a position where the current roster has one good player (tay). The rest is unlikely to ever move the needle, let alone this year.
Its looking more and more like Boozer’s not going to opt out I wonder if we can get him thru a sign and trade for Rip and a future num. 2 .
@Dafa
Gordon is younger, a much better shooter from distance, and unlike Joe Johnson, doesn’t completely disappear in moments when his team needs him the most. Johnson is the definition of a “third banana.” That’s why the Hawks are/were never going anywhere with him as the “head banana.” I’m not the biggest Gordon fan in the world, but I’ll take him over what will be a 30 year-old SG who only shows up during the regular season and routinely disappears in big situations. Just my take, but I’ve never been a big Johnson fan and still don’t understand people’s infatuation with one of the top 5 overrated players in the league. You replace him with Gordon on that Hawks team, and I guarantee they at least win one game against Cleveland this postseason.
If the Suns could’ve kept the ‘05 team together, I’m pretty sure they would’ve won at least one championship by now. Johnson was perfect as the 3rd option on a high-scoring team. Once he became “the man” in Atlanta, his shots, and thus numbers, went up, but you could tell he still wished he could defer to Nash/Staudemire/Marion/Barbosa when things got tough. He’s just not meant to be “the man.” Kind of a homeless man’s Ray Allen.
So I’ve been thinking about our 1-3’s for next season, and, Rip existing or not, I’m actually a little excited. Assuming that we do sign Ben Gordon (hopefully for <$10mil), we’d be looking at something like this:
Stuck/MFWB
Gordon/AA
Tay/Daye/(maybe Summers/Sleepy/Washington/Douchy Swede)
We’ve got two EXCELLENT slashers at the PG spot, but unlike last year, we have some LIGHTS OUT shooters for them to kick to. We all know Gordon has unlimited range, and we’re all well-versed in the type of shooting Tay can do occasionally, but I’m actually really excited about Daye coming off our bench this year– the kid’s nearly 7′ and can shoot the LIGHTS out. He had the same percentages this year from 2pt and 3pt as Stephen Curry (albeit with less usage), a very quick release, great jumpshot form already, and with his ridiculous length he’s basically unblockable. Kind of like Rasheed minus 30 lbs and the attitude. Plus, he averaged something like 4 blocks per/40min last year.
Summers, assuming he makes the team (and I think he will), also has range out to deep from the 3 spot and he’s athletic as hell too. Can Sharpe shoot? I don’t really give a fuck. Pretty sure he’s never making the team. Way to go, Joe. Could’ve been Deandre Jordan, a legit starting C talent. Whatever, water under the bridge.
Then we’ve got Washington, who I think will give Summers a run for his money for the 13th/14th roster spot. I have a gut feeling this guy’s going to be a solid player in the NBA relatively soon. He’s just too freakishly athletic. If Iggy in Philadelphia can be a player in this league, Washington (with the exact same athleticism/lack of basketball skill) should at least be able to be a top-flight wing defender/energy guy. I hope he blows the shit up in summer league, because I want to watch him play this season. Could be a “Birdman” character at the 3-spot.
All-in-all, I’m actually pretty excited about our guards and wings for the upcoming year. Now the bigs– those are the problem. Pretty sure if we sign Gordon it means Rip’s on his way out (obvi). The best idea I’ve heard is to send him to Philly in some package for Brand. I think after that, we spend a chunk of what’s left over on Gortat. Then we look like this:
Stuck/MFWB
Gordon/AA
Tay/Daye/(Washington/Summers)
Brand/Max/FA
Gortat/Kwame
We can drive the lane, shoots the lights out from the wing, legitimately score in the post, rebound, shot block, run when we want to, grind it out when we want to (thanks, Brand)… we can basically do everything. Now can our coaching staff figure out how to actually get these guys to do those things?
And I have a feeling that Cowens’ promotion/position change was made to make room for Mr. Combat Basketball on Curry’s staff. Just a hunch.
The BL’s Combat Basketball namechecks and “Homeless man’s Ray Allen” made me laugh, thank you Joel.
Joel…I really like that line-up if Brand ends up being the pre-injury version of himself. It’s definitely a big risk to take on that contract though considering his injury history.
If we can’t get Kaman, Gortat seems the most likely FA option at the five. Regarding our lack of a starting four, I still think David Lee is good choice. Chris Anderson would make an exceptional add to the bench as well.
Stuckey/Bynum
Rip/AA
Tay/Daye
Lee/Anderson/Maxi
Gortat/Brown
When MCIAFI wants to play his beloved small ball:
Bynum
Stuckey
Rip/AA
Tay
Anderson
We might very well be looking at lee and Gortat which wouldn’t be the worst case senario its still an upgrade over last year and we could look to upgrade the 4 next yr.by trading Tay and one of the extra three’s as far as thisw yr. I think the 1,2and are set and the 3 when it shakes out are pretty well set on this team I think Daye and ,Summers or Washington,will make the team I think jerbko makes it too at 6′10″ and 235 he’ll see spot duty at the 4 he also at has alot of range .
Stuck/MFWB
Gordon/AA
Tay/Daye/(Washington/Summers)
Brand/Max/FA
Gortat/Kwame
Giggity giggity goo. Ohhh… right.
Joel, that’s the ultimate best case scenario. Replacing Sheed (my least favorite Piston) with Brand (my second favorite non-Piston) would be a dream come true (until he gets hurt again, that is).
If you Google ‘Jonas Jerbko’ this is the #1 hit in all of the internets! It also says ‘Did you mean: Jonas Jerebko‘.
Are we spelling this guy’s name right? Cheik Samb. Herrmann. Afflalo. Can’t Joe Dumars draft/trade for a Joe Smith once in a while?
And let me send a hallå to all the new Swedish DBB readers. In the coming days I hope you teach us all some Swedish and we can teach you the meaning of MFWB.
When speaking of Sweden, there really is only one question: Fish or meatballs?
My my, I spend one week overseas and everything goes bananas in the NBA. Shaq in Cleveland. Vinsanity in Orlando. Pistons draft a bunch of players I know nothing about (of course, that was to be expected since I don’t watch college ball). Going by the best info I have, the videos posted on DBB, here’s my analysis of our draft.
Austin Daye- He looks like a baby Sheed. Lots of athleticism and a sweet jumper are tempered by a frame that makes Tayshaun look beefy. Daye will need plenty of time in the weight room before he’ll be ready to contribute.
DaJuan Summers- I like his aggressive style of play, but what position will he play? His body is far more NBA ready than Daye’s. Summers will need time to find a role and I can’t see him contributing much beyond hustle right now.
Jonas Jerbko- Apparently he can dunk. And he’s Swedish! You know who else entered a major American sports league as a little known kid from Sweden? Nicklas mother fuckin’ Lidstrom. From this connection I will extrapolate that Jerbko will become an all-time great who redefines how the game is played. He will also win lots of Stanley Cups.
My computer is dying. Catch you all lat
Friends don’t let friends eat lutefisk.
It just dawned on me what we should do this off-season:
Trade Rip (our all-star guard and team leader) to Houston for McGrady (a washed-up ’superstar’ with a 20+ million expiring contract).
That way, we’ll have unlimited cap space moving forward…
Who’s with me?
/sarcasm
@bgrulker - I may have actually suggested that very trade without the sarcasm tag.
/goodthingimnotarealgm
Didn’t Joe D try to pull of that trade last offseason?
/goodthinghesnotarealg– wait a minute…
My reasoning for wanting T-Mac was A) the Pistons could use more rebounding from the guard position and B) they could use some SF minutes too and C) if you squint hard the ghost of Tracy McGrady would satisfy both A and B. Instead we traded our only point guard for another SG who couldn’t rebound. Tack så mycket…NOT!
Though this maybe heresy, I’d say do a SnT with Sheed to Orl for Gortat. Sure, we’d be strenghtening the Magic, but we’d get something for Sheed leaving, Sheed could make 12M/2 yr (he ain’t getting 8M) and I don’t think many folks would be able to match that for Orlando. Gortat is leaving regardless, Lewis can slide to the 3. Neither Clev nor SA have any assets to do a SnT. If I Orlando I gotta pursue this. They traded away Battie, probably not resigning Turk and Gortat is leaving. That’s 3 guys outta 5 for frontcourt depth that Orl is losing.
Then sign Millsap to an offer sheet. Jazz will either have to match or not and that will make Boozer either opt out (most likely regardless) or stay in. Jazz would then be able to re-sign Okur or Korver if Boozer opts out and they match Millsap (depending on the contract parameters). If the Jazz do match and Boozer definitely opts out, then I think we have some leverage over Boozer. Nobody can offer him the same amount of money (except OKC & Memphis). If I’m Joe, I jump on Millsap real quick as OKC has expressed an interest in Millsap and they’re shaping up a pretty good roster so far.
Very interesting piece in the Free Press today about the enmity between Rip and Curry. Given how firmly Dumars hitched his wagon to Curry when he hired him (remember how he trumpeted the hire to the media as a stroke of genius, saying Curry was “the most like me” of any coaches he had hired, and other nonsense?), and given that Curry says he won’t sit down with Rip until this summer’s roster turnover is done (does he have a promise from Dumars that Rip will be gone by then?), I worry that Dumars may indeed ship Rip out because of this crap. I mean, because Carlos Boozer and Ben Gordon are much more selfless, team-committed guys, right?? Anyway, here:
Reporters clearly heard a high-decibel confrontation between Curry and Hamilton during a fourth quarter time-out against Portland at the Palace in the season’s first month. Hamilton didn’t agree with Curry’s substitution patterns and Curry told him that if he didn’t like the coach’s decision, he could sit for the remainder of the game.
Hamilton dismissed the incident afterward.
There were other in-huddle disputes where Hamilton’s attitude teetered at the brink of open mutiny, questioning Curry’s coaching expertise on the basis of his limited skills as a player.
http://www.freep.com/article/20090629/COL08/906290328/1048/SPORTS/Curry+must+step+up+to+fix+relationship+with+Hamilton
MBinSoCal:
I like Gortat, a lot frankly. But do we need to do the SnT to get him? Can’t we just sign him? I realize the SnT locks it up, but still curious.
If we do get Gortat, I’m good with either Boozer or Milsap, frankly. I think Gortat gives us defense, rebounds, and good offensive efficiency around the basket. Pair that with a PF who can score in the post, and we’re up and running.
Not title contenders, yet, but that gives us a winning team (without moving Rip/Tay) and leaves us some wiggle room for the next couple seasons in terms of finances (doesn’t it?).
There were other in-huddle disputes where Hamilton’s attitude teetered at the brink of open mutiny, questioning Curry’s coaching expertise on the basis of his limited skills as a player.
Two things, Bill.
First, I think that if we were to move Rip it would be to get younger and to get rid of his burdensome contract (which becomes burdensome in two years, not this one, per se).
Second, I’m rather old-school when it comes to beefs like this. Players play. Coaches coach. About the only legitimate authority an NBA coach has over his players is the substitution pattern; if you don’t like it, you can ride the pine, in other words.
I think MCIAFI’s subbing patterns have been incomprehensible. That said, I’m not about to defend Rip for letting loose at the coach during a timeout; that’s not the time, and it’s not the place. A team won’t win unless it buys into the caching scheme, even if the individual players disagree. The mature thing would have been for Rip to approach MCIAFI behind closed doors, in private, for the good of both of them and for the cohesion of the team as a whole.
In other words, if I like nothing else about MCIAFI, at least he has a backbone and is willing to stand up to a whiny NBA player, because so many of them have become whiny little children who simply get their way when they scream loudly enough.
brgulker, I agree that Rip, as much as I do love him, can occasionally be a bit of a bitch. And I agree that there is a time and place to object to asinine substitution patterns and bizarre decision-making.
However, let’s not give Curry undue credit. If he had any backbone he would have made the right call from the outset and benched Iverson. His lack of backbone and stand-up-ability created the disastrous situation with Rip, and also cost the Pistons a number of wins in the regular season - wins that could have averted a first-round matchup with the Cavs, who before they imploded against Orlando were the best team in the NBA.
Rip wants to win. He knows how to win. He’s won often in the past. His personal training regimen is one of the toughest in the NBA, because he is committed to putting himself and his teammates in the best position to win. No one can question his commitment to that. I don’t condone open insubordination during games, but it must be agonizing every day to come to work and know that someone who is neither intelligent nor prepared is responsible for running the team. Imagine how you would feel - you’d feel the embarrassment and frustration you feel now as a fan, times ten or twenty or a hundred. I sympathize with Rip.
Also, I question whether Rip’s contract will ever be burdensome. His game is centered around finesse, hustle, and smarts, not a super-quick first step or leaping ability (as Iverson’s now-departed game was). Rip will age like Reggie Miller, who was very effective well into his thirties. And he’s not paid all that much relative to his production.
However, let’s not give Curry undue credit. If he had any backbone he would have made the right call from the outset and benched Iverson. His lack of backbone and stand-up-ability created the disastrous situation with Rip, and also cost the Pistons a number of wins in the regular season - wins that could have averted a first-round matchup with the Cavs, who before they imploded against Orlando were the best team in the NBA.
Rip wants to win. He knows how to win. He’s won often in the past.
Fair point, to be sure.
I, too, sympathize with Rip. And like all of us, I wished that the AI situation had played out differently.
Still to this day, I cannot for the life of me understand why Dumars hired Curry. The only thing I can think of smacks of conspiracy lunacy:
Joe D knew beforehand that he was going to blow up the roster, beginning with the Chauncy trade. It was always going to take at least two years to rebuild a contender. So he hires Curry on the CHEAP (pretty sure his contract is one of the cheapest in the league for coaches– does he even make a mil/yr?) to basically preside lame-duck style over a team that really has no chance, regardless of coach. Why pay a real coach real money when you know you’re not doing shit for two years anyhow? Pretty sure that Curry’s contract was for 3 years, with the team having the option for the 3rd. So we rebuild this summer, improve over the year (hopefully), and then drop Curry after the season.
My dream pick would be Steve Van Gundy. If you remember his Knicks teams, that’s exactly the type of basketball I want to get back to.
hahahaha
“Steve Van Gundy”
Jeff. Motherfucking Jeff. Booze on Sundays is not prudent.
brglker: I don’t think we need to, but it would be a way to get a bit more money there to Gortat to insure it. He will have suitors and if I’m SA and give him a MLE (that would I think put them over the cap, even if Finley retires but he doesn’t if the sign Gortat so he’ll play for a ring) how can Gortat say no to that?
As for the Rip/MCIAFI, wasn’t this suppose to be a player’s coach? Guy who would sit down and talk? My fear about talking after the roster is done is BG at 11M and Rip is asked to come off the bench. Curry doesn’t want to talk about a starting gig if BG is here.
Joe D knew beforehand that he was going to blow up the roster, beginning with the Chauncy trade. It was always going to take at least two years to rebuild a contender. So he hires Curry on the CHEAP (pretty sure his contract is one of the cheapest in the league for coaches– does he even make a mil/yr?) to basically preside lame-duck style over a team that really has no chance, regardless of coach. Why pay a real coach real money when you know you’re not doing shit for two years anyhow? Pretty sure that Curry’s contract was for 3 years, with the team having the option for the 3rd. So we rebuild this summer, improve over the year (hopefully), and then drop Curry after the season.
The same thoughts have crossed my mind. I think Joe knew he was blowing up the roster; that much isn’t conspiracy talk, I don’t think. I think that’s a realistic assumption.
What gets crazy is to think about why Joe hired MCIAFI when he knew he was blowing up the roster.
Maybe MBinSoCal is right:
wasn’t this suppose to be a player’s coach?
which is what I thought last summer, during preseason, and even at the beginning of the year. If that’s the case, it scares me, because it means Joe D grossly mis-evaluated MCIAFI.
But if your hypothetical scenario is actually the case, I’m actually able to deal with last season and the upcoming season better.
Re: the conspiracy theory - with respect, I don’t think it makes much sense. Hiring a professional coach rather than going with Amateur Hour Curry would have cost the Pistons what, $2M or $3M more per season, I think. Right? That is a pittance compared with the salaries and other expenses the Pistons pay each year.
If the Pistons had made it to the second round rather than the first round, which I think they easily could have done had they had a real coach last season, the amount of incremental profit they’d have received from ticket sales and merchandise would certainly have outweighed the extra amount paid out for the pro coach’s salary.
Never mind the fact that much of the work in rebuilding depends on developing young guys (all the Pistons’ young guys took steps back last season - not a coincidence). And never mind the fact that being terrible makes Detroit a less attractive destination for free agents. And never mind that Dumars is under added scrutiny now because the team is awful. Even disregarding all those factors - looking at the situation strictly from a financial perspective - it doesn’t seem to make much sense to save money on the coach.
Meet the lost Van Gundy brother, Steve.
D’oh. My HTML skills are about as good as my GM skills. Just Google ‘bald mustache’ in images and the imaginary S(teve)VG is the first hit.
everybody watchin’ Joe D after draft press conference live on pistons.com !!!
Rip argued with Flip after getting pulled from a game too. He’s gotten arrogant. This will be a problem no matter who is coach. Even Laimbeer (for those who think that BL will just come in and clunk heads together). Hell, if Phil Jackson was the coach he would argue with him too.
Probably the only ones he wouldn’t argue with probably Popovich and Pat Riley.
You have to love Rip’s confidence. He wouldn’t be the player he is without it. But, at some point, he’s got to keep his ego in check.
This doesn’t absolve Curry for not talking about this with him man-to-man though. I’m not sure why coaches do these things. It seems to happen all the time.
@ Bill H: Yeah, maybe 2-3M a year more, because I think MCIAFI makes 2.5M/yr. But what coach wants to come here? Immediately after releasing Flip last summer with 1 yr 5M (??) so now you’re at 7.5M last year with MCIAFI.
Then, given the success to date and pre-CB trade, said coach is going to have a boatload of pressure whereas Curry wouldn’t. I think Joe D made that trade last summer and it just came to fruition in the first week. That would explain why Denver pulled Klieza’a contract offer at the 11th hour just before the season started.
I do think that if Jod can remake the roster to his liking and Curry comes out flat to start the season, he won’t be afraid to pull the plug. If we get Millsap/Boozer, Gortat/Chandler and BG and are under .500 heading into the new year, MCIAFI will be an unemployed FI. If Joe D only swings one major deal or none, then I think he sticks with MCIAFI to as to have the highet lottery pick possible.
Steve Van Gundy
“I don’t need no instructions to know how to ROCK.”
“I do think that if Jod can remake the roster to his liking…”
I like that. I’m going to start referring to Joe D as “Jod” from now on. It reminds me of a Superman villain or some type of ancient deity.
Jod, the Egyption god of bad decision making?
Yeah, MB, I do absolutely see the point about no coaches wanting to come to Detroit. I wouldn’t want to. And the part about pressure on a real coach that MC wouldn’t face - that’s true.
I love that last bit. Roll with MC and watch the lottery picks pile up!
Re: Jod
Bill Simmons would agree (after making a tiresome Karate Kid reference).
Perhaps Jod has some legs: Super-evil-GM-genius sung to the theme of those Bud-lite commercials . .
Here’s to you, “Super-evil-GM-genius” man.
Kneel before Jod!
If Rip goes in a trade, it will mean that the Pistons are in full rebuild mode and will go for youth with the hopes that the team will grow into a contender together.
For example, Rip goes to Philly for Dalembert. Philly gets a talent upgrade as Rip is a better player, Detroit gets an average Center with a two year contract. If Boozer doesn’t opt out, the Pistons go after Gordon and Milsap. The starters are Stuckey, Gordon, Tay, Milsap and Dalembert. Not a contender but it’s a very young team (plus, some young talent on the bench).
If Rip stays, it’s “reload” mode and the Pistons will probably look to add some power on the frontline.
The ideal would be to get Brand but I’m guessing that they’ll let the new coach have a chance to integrate Brand into the offense and see what Philly can do at full strength.
I dont think Joe will trade Rip for Dalembert, I think he’s looking for a better defender and a better offensive player then him. Chandler is a better defender, and Kaman is at both. Sammy D has no upside and it seems his value is shriking by the year. Id loe to get Chandler or Kaman if we sign Boozer and Gordon.
rban, I agree. I just don’t think the Clippers are in the market for a SG. And I don’t think NO or Utah wants to take on Rip’s salary.
From General Zod’s biography at Comics DB: “He then set out to seize power by creating his own army of artifical men, all doubles of himself. Not the best of scientists, Zod produced only imperfect doubles of himself.”
Sound familiar?
actually NO would be a great team for Rip. They need 2guard and they would have a nice backcourt.
I’m 100% positive that Kaman can be had. Pretty sure the Clips are trying to get rid of both him and Z-Bo, so we should be able to at the very least do some type of salary dump scenario for Kaman.
The wrench in the proceedings is Ben Gordon. If we sign him, do we trade Rip? I would love to trade Tay for Kaman/Thornton, but then we have a surplus of 2’s. And I don’t think the Clips want Rip because then they’d also have a surplus of 2’s. But a salary dump situation for Kaman would be nice.
Did any else see that Melo is leaning towards opting-out if him and the Jazz can’t agree to an extension before July 1st? It’ll be real interesting to see what Melo and Boozer ultimately decide to do.
Jim: I saw that. I think Okur is seeing what Boozer does. If Boozer opts out and knowing that Millsap (they’ve extended a qualifying offer already) will come cheaper than Boozer so Okur should be able to tap some of that money. On the other hand, if Boozer doesn’t opt out it really restricts what the Jazz can do for Okur. If I’m Boozer, I think I stay in believing that a SnT comes along or plays for one year at 13M and tries again next year.
However, I do believe he opts out.
Memo i think you mean.
The only way Rip ca be happy now is if he plays the kind of minutes he always has, which regardless won’t be the case. I think Stuckey and Aflalo will get there fair share at the 2 guard.
@rban:
I dont think Joe will trade Rip for Dalembert, I think he’s looking for a better defender and a better offensive player then him. Chandler is a better defender, and Kaman is at both. Sammy D has no upside and it seems his value is shriking by the year. Id loe to get Chandler or Kaman if we sign Boozer and Gordon.
Dalembert is head and shoulders above Chandler and a significant upgrade over Kaman in rebounding and shot blocking. And then there’s that one stat which pretty much kills any argument for the other two:
Dalembert has played 82 games straight for 3 years running. In the last two years:
Dalembert: 164 games
Chandler: 124 games (injury woes have just begun, imo)
Kaman: 87 games
On top of all that, Dalembert is also cheaper. I’d take an offensive downgrade and an 82 game certainty over an injury-ridden coin toss in a heartbeat. Put him next to a scorer like Boozer, you’ve got a tough front court on either end of the floor.
Thanks Rban…I did mean to say Memo.
Uggh. I really hope we don’t get Dalembert. I just dislike him. He reminds me of a rich man’s Nazr. Mostly, because they are both weak as hell going to the rack. He’s fine, but I really wouldn’t enjoy rooting for him.
rban, Rip is way better than Stuckey and Afflalo. Why would he lose minutes to those two? They should get some burn, fine, but I think it makes sense to play your best player as much as he can play without getting worn down over the course of a season.
Let me throw something out there. For some reason, I have fallen for the idea of Shawn Marion at the 3 for us. More athletic than Tay and I think has more of a gangsta streak. Just meaning, I thik he’s more apt to throw 20-25 pts back in Lebron or Pierce’s face whereas Tay lets them score 35 and comes back with 5 pts of his own. What if we sent Tay, Rip & Max to Toronto for Bosh. Not sure how the salaries match up, maybe we have to take back a spare part to match up salaries. Then we sign Marion for Tay’s $10M, Ben Gordon with Rip’s $10M. Then we sign Okur to play center. If we just are basically doing a salary swap for Tay-Marion and Gordon-Rip, and pay Bosh $15-16M extension, which wouldn’t kick in until the following season. Wouldn’t that leave us money to go after Okur to play along side Bosh. We’re not the #1 defensive team in the league at that point but the Lakers just won a championship with great offense and decent defense. Starting line-up:
Stuckey, MFWB
Gordon,AA
Marion,Daye or whomever
Bosh, Maxiel
Okur, Brown
We have slashers in Stuckey and Marion, and shooters in Gordon, Bosh, Okur. Both big men are not Kevin McHale clones but can give you a few points in the paint. We get more athletic, bigger and waaaaay better offensively. Don’t know if all the numbers work guys. But just a thought. Feel free to get our your scalpels.
I forgot to mention, we would have to play a more uptempo style. We don’t have to become the Golden State Warriors or Phoenix Suns, but we can’t be the Pistons of 2004-2008 either. (Super slow motion, grind it out).
This is all very sad.
I agree with Bill H. Rip’s contract is not a bad one for how a player of his style ages. However once we sign Gordon (jod’s favorite flawed henchman) we have the pleasure of dealing Rip from a point of weakness. Aka Danny Ainge starts making more trade proposals with the other GMS of the league that make dropping the soap in prison seem cordial.
Holding the cash for next season when very few Big Fish opt out (and yes when only Bosh does it is to go to Miami, NY, Cleveland)will not work or happen (per Jod)
This year all the names being bandied about through FA and SnT put us right back into basketball pergatory.
Kaman, Millsap, Boozer, Lee, Turk, Gordon, Gortat,Dalembert… All these names may put a contender over the top but one or as it seems two of these names on a marginal team such as the current Pistons squad does not do it. This is the recipe for the basketball equivalent of government cheese.
I don’t mean to live in the past but it seems that Joe D. and the rest us of might have been best served by sending Chauncey for a legit big man possibly packaged with Sheed. This would have increased the probability that the only man with true heart Dyess would resign.
Here’s to hoping that Jod has the mojo to pull off an evil lopsided trade that makes the Garnett and Gasol deals look “fair and balanced”
Enter devious laughter stage left…..
Don’t know how we’d afford Okur in that setup E-Double, and I don’t think he’s the right guy to play with Bosh (bosh really needs a big body at the 5), but that’s a nasty, nasty lineup. Championship caliber. (and I’m not big on Bosh)
Joddamnit
I think M. Daniels could be a nice pick up for us sans gordon. We could probably get him around the mid level, and he would be a good fit (even with the predator dreds) behind rip/tay. Doesn’t solve our bigs shortage, but I think he would be a much cheaper/better fit then gordon.
Sorry for the double post, but my comment went through moderator review for six hours and wound up waaaaaay back there in the thread. Must be some sort of mod discrimination against people posting in Britain.
My my, I spend one week overseas and everything goes bananas in the NBA. Shaq in Cleveland. Vinsanity in Orlando. Pistons draft a bunch of players I know nothing about (of course, that was to be expected since I don’t watch college ball). Going by the best info I have, the videos posted on DBB, here’s my analysis of our draft.
Austin Daye- He looks like a baby Sheed. Lots of athleticism and a sweet jumper are tempered by a frame that makes Tayshaun look beefy. Daye will need plenty of time in the weight room before he’ll be ready to contribute.
DaJuan Summers- I like his aggressive style of play, but what position will he play? His body is far more NBA ready than Daye’s. Summers will need time to find a role and I can’t see him contributing much beyond hustle right now.
Jonas Jerbko- Apparently he can dunk. And he’s Swedish! You know who else entered a major American sports league as a little known kid from Sweden? Nicklas mother fuckin’ Lidstrom. From this connection I will extrapolate that Jerbko will become an all-time great who redefines how the game is played. He will also win lots of Stanley Cups.
My computer is dying. Catch you all later.
That and I’m a total attention whore, of course.
I just realized I included Mad Max in my trade proposal and then listed him as our backup PF. My bad.
I’ll admit, I don’t know if that trade makes sense for Toronto because it doesn’t leave them with a starting PF. But I think I want Marion. Don’t know where this sudden man-crush is coming from. Just tired of Tay breaking down and we play Lebron and Pierce and they score 35 pts against Tay’s 5 pts, and I think Marion is an unrestricted FA. Also, for the record, I’m not saying Rip needs to go. I like him over Gordon, but I do like that killer instinct Gordon showed in the playoffs though. I just included Rip because Toronto is going to want a good package back to move Bosh in the off-seaon, verus trade deadline he may be cheaper to get. But I really like that line-up though. Stuck, Gordon, Marion, Bosh, Okur (Gortat). If we can’t afford Okur in my scenario, but Gortat would work. I’d love to have Birdman or David Lee coming off the bench though. Damn salary cap.
I threw out Rip for Dalembert as what Dumars can expect from a trade. He won’t get equal value because of Rip’s contract, so he’ll have to settle for a lesser big man.
I think we can agree that Gortat is probably just as good as Dalembert for half the price. So, it’s in Dumars best interest to keep Rip and spend the money on a PF and C.
I’m confused you’re confused. Daye, summers and the Swede are shooters. Stuck isn’t gonna be untoucvable if he won’t/can’t develop a jump shot. I want Bynum to get alot of minutes. I didn’t draft Blair cuz he’s a weaker Millsap. I want Millsap. I need a shooter on my second team that’s anoter reason for my picks. We can’t get Bosh. Toronto is a really rising team contrary to what some here say. We’re a lottery team. I figure we’re better than Milwaukee and the Minneapolis Lakers cuz all their players are dead.
Per QD’s sincerest hopes, the Jonas Jerbko is a Piston thread is nearly over 200 comments.
/throws graffiti
200 comments for the swede! Make Charlie V. another ufa on the list.
I wonder if Charlie V will be a target this summer. Based on the draft picks and comments by Pistons management, they definitely seem to value 3/4 hybrids who can shoot the ball. He actually put up 21/9 with just under a block and steal per 36 mpg last year and is just 24 years old so there’s room for growth. I worry about his questionable attitude and if he just had a good year in his contract year, but it might only cost 7M per year to sign him.
say no to Charlie V please!!!!!!!!
Man, Jod sure is a terrible speller.
Jod’s also pretty down on our team when he rates the raptors above his own. Jod, are you there? It’s me, Craig. Please put Mciafi on the dl with anxiety disorder.
And Kwame returns for more cake
http://www.freep.com/article/20090629/SPORTS03/90629046/Kwame+Brown+will+stay+with+Pistons
That’s the team I want. Stuck, Gordon, Marion, Bosh, Gortat. With David Lee or Birdman coming off the bench. If Gordon gets Rips salary, Marion gets Tay, Gortat gets Dyess salary, this shit should be able to work. Bosh is already under contract for next year, I think at a reasonable number so he doesn’t eat up all the $20M or so we have in cap space. All the people I mentioned above are just taking someone elses salary and doesn’t eat into the $20M, except Bosh. What is Bosh scheduled to make next year maybe $10, $12 maybe $13M. That still leaves us money under the cap to snag another niece bench piece at $5-7M. Either my math is waaaay off or I’m starting to get excited about what we can do with a few clever trades and $19-20M in cap space. I wonder if Toronto can do much better than Tay, Rip & Max for Bosh. Amare=all offense, Boozer=too expensive, Milsap=undersized, Kaman & Dalembert=way too expensive for what they bring to the table. If Okur maybe isn’t the bruiser we need next to (toilet paper soft) Bosh, then Gortat seems like a dream at the $5-7 or 8M range. Fella’s if Joe D. plays his cards right, we can be right back in the freaking mix next year.
“And Kwame returns for more cake.”
This pleases us, the KOKB.
@E-Double:
That’s the team I want. Stuck, Gordon, Marion, Bosh, Gortat. With David Lee or Birdman coming off the bench.
Yeah, your math is way off, but I like your thinking. Bosh is earning $16M next year, $17M the following on his player option. He’ll likely command $20M (or more!) the season following, which we could afford given his expiring and Kwame’s expiring, plus any bird (or early bird) rights involved in the trade.
If we make that move, we’d maintain our $18-$20M cap space. Gordon would likely get $11, as rumored ($10 preferably), Gortat would get mid level money ($5.5M)– so that makes for $16.5M.
So how do we get Marion in that scenario? And how the hell do we get David Lee?
I don’t want Bosh on our team, so much, as he’ll be getting a pay raise FAR out of proportion to his performance. But shit, it’s better than our current squad.
KNEEL BEFORE JOD!
Sweet my man Brown n’ Bubbly is back. For the price we pay him, I think he’s actually undervalued on the team. If the end of last season was any indication of things to come, I think he can be dependable for a solid 20 minutes a night. I’d say its safe to expect an acceptable 6 and 8 from him.
The only thing I’m concerned about is the lack of Dave Cowens. He clearly was the smartest man on the bench, and don’t forget about all the work he put into Kwame. You have to admire his work, he turned the man of stone into a reliable first big off the bench.
Keep in mind that Gortat IS NOT a starter. He’s an excellent first big off the bench, but he’s got no post moves and isn’t a great shot blocker (I think Amir proved that stats in end game situations are meaningless). He’s got some range, but doesn’t have the footwork to be a starter (yes I actually have been paying close attention to him, he was definitely on my radar).
Also Marion isn’t worth the money he demands. His mediocre numbers at toronto and miami showed that he was another product of the D’Antoni system (which furthers that D’Antoni is a great numbers coach that will never win a title). The only advantage he would provide is more size to go against Le-I-aint-got-no-jumpshot-y’all, but he seemed to have lost a step when I was watching Toronto games. I would take Turkoglu over him in a heartbeat.
And no I refuse to kneel before Joe. All Joe has proven is that he does not know how to use first round draft picks. He is great with the second round, probably is the best in the league behind San Antonio when it comes to managing contracts and can trade - but I refuse to accept that he picked Austin Daye over Jrue Holiday. Stuckey is a combo guard, or in other words, a shooter with no true position, ie Ben Gordon. Arron Afflalo and Tayshaun Prince have been his only true “gems” in the first round, but all his massive failures have clearly overshadowed them.
in other news, tennis star Simona Halep is about to do a disservice to men around the world by electing to get breast reduction surgery
http://graneyandthepig.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/say-it-aint-so/
Rip for Dalembert? Uh-huh. I’m gonna do that one. LMAO. Let’s get serious here. Rip is my 2 guard. I don’t have another. There’s not a team who will trade me a 2 that’s better than him. Curry is part of my ego. I’m proving I can put together enough talent that even a terrible coach can win with. Except I don’t know where the talent is coming from.
Damnit Mike Payne, you had to ruin my fantasy. I didn’t realize Bosh was making that much. If he’s talking about opting out of a $17M deal, then he definately wants 20+ and I’m not paying soft-as-tissue Bosh that much. My rationale on Marion was that if Gordon will take a first year salary in the range of what Rip would have made and Marion takes in the range of what Tay would have made, and Gortat signs for what either Max or Dyess would have made, then we barely would have touched the $20M we have free. But all that being said, Bosh wanting as much as he does ruins my own dream. Now I’m back to square one. All the big names are tooooo damn expensive for what they produce and Birdman, Lee and Villanueva are reasonably priced but I’m not crazy about any of them as starting PF’s. What the hell Mike P. Now I’m back to square one and its all your fault. Why ruin my fantasy with facts? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy???
If we sign Gordon (hopefully for 9.5mil or less )maybe we could trade Rip to New York in a sign and trade for Lee and somebody else (Chandler would be nice )but probably somebody we don’t want but could live with,at least we’d be trading Rip for big.
Nah you don’t want Gordon. He looks good on paper, but I guarantee you, he’ll never win a title as a starter. He’s a 6th man scorer, doesn’t really have a true position because of his size and lack of making others better. Reportedly he’s looking for $11 million because he rejected Chicago’s offer of $10 million.
@Ali:
Keep in mind that Gortat IS NOT a starter. He’s an excellent first big off the bench, but he’s got no post moves and isn’t a great shot blocker (I think Amir proved that stats in end game situations are meaningless). He’s got some range, but doesn’t have the footwork to be a starter (yes I actually have been paying close attention to him, he was definitely on my radar).
Funny enough, since commenters Joel and QuickDarshan started the buzz about him, Marcin Gortat has been the one and only Free Agent that this entire community agrees about (well, 95%+).
That aside, I don’t know if you’ve been watching the same player we have. When given the minutes, he is a PROLIFIC shot blocker (read: better than chris kaman, tyson chandler, all the names that are brought up here in trade scenarios), an EXCELLENT rebounder, and one of the most efficient centers in the league in scoring (not as solid as Biedrins or Przybilla, who lead that pack). His PER of 17.2 (better, again, than any other free agent or trade option mentioned here on DBB) didn’t come by accident, but by his well-rounded and efficient production numbers.
All garbage minutes? What about the playoff game which he started in place of Dwight Howard who was suspended? 11 points, 15 rebounds, 4 steals, 62.5% shooting. PLAYOFF GAME.
In three regular season starts, he averaged 10 points, 12 rebounds, and 3 blocks per game.
It’s hard to argue that he “is NOT a starter” when he’s shown he’s a pretty damn good starter.
*fist bump to the pro-gortat crew on DBB*
For reference, a comparison of the most common (and recent) FA/trade options at Center on DBB:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gortama01&y1=2009&p2=kamanch01&y2=2009&p3=chandty01&y3=2009&p4=dalemsa01&y4=2009
Just to make it clear, if we were guaranteed a HEALTHY Chris Kaman, then it’s just not factual to say that he’s “way too expensive for what he brings to the table.” In his last (relatively) healthy season, these were his averages:
2006-07
37mpg
15.7ppg
12.7rpg
2.9bpg
48%fg
76%ft
16/13/3 is an All-Star center in the East (and in the West, as long as you’re on a winning team). Not to mention he hits close to 80% of FT’s: that’s a RIGHTEOUS percentage for a legit 7 footer. And at an average of ~$10mil for the next 3 seasons, that’s actually a BARGAIN, considering how much Dalembert/Dampier/Shaq/Chandler/Ilgouskas get paid for being not as good (CURRENTLY, in Shaq’s case; his 15/8 is not worth $25 mil anymore). What makes him not worth the money is the injury risk. That’s it. Healthy, he’s one of the top 5 centers in the league. So to say he’s too expensive for what he brings to the table is just a fallacy. He might actually be a bargain for what he LITERALLY brings to the table. The problem is that he has trouble GETTING to the table.
Honestly, with Arnie in our corner, and with Dyess’ incredible run here after basically losing both ACL’s as running proof (not to mention him having an almost MVP caliber year last year at 34 years of age), I don’t think it’s that risky of a move. He’s most definitely the best big man out there that we could reasonably get with out gutting our team, excluding Gortat– that’s a no brainer; just sign the guy, Joddamnit. Do we even need to think about this?
As for Marion, I loved his game. Loved. Past tense. He’s 31 and is going to want the same money we’re paying Prince, and honestly I’d rather just have Prince, especially if we’re in the middle of a “youth movement.” Besides, how many athletic 3-4’s did we just draft? 37? I think that was the number. And don’t forget the effect that “home cooking” seems to have on players– I’m sure Kaman would be THRILLED to be playing for his hometown team, in front of his friends and family every game, and let’s not forget about the allure of dynamite fishing with his yokel friends on off days.
Joddamnit.
@MP
Since I’m clearly driving the Gortat Bandwagon and QD’s riding shotty, I’d be willing to offer you the Cobain spot (behind shotgun– ZING!) if you want.
Game?
Everything MP said, plus Gortat is only 25 years old so he hasn’t even entered his prime yet. When you factor in that we could probably have him for just over the MLE he’d be a great pick-up.
Yells to Joel from the new back seat, “Are we there yet?”
Touched by An Asshole
(in an Irish accent)
“But Jod loves you! And He’s always watching over you even in the tough times. Jod has a plan, you can be sure. We won’t know it until He wants it to be known, but you just have to keep faith! Jod works in mysterious ways.”
Would MCIAFI be Della Reese?
Gortat plays a finesse game, I doubt you’d see his numbers improve that much because he’s an average athlete.
Those are small samples (not to mention Samuel Dalembert is a bust, why do you think Philly is trying to get rid of him). You’ll find that over the course of a full season those numbers would flatten out. He is a very good rebounder though, I’ll give you that. He had the second most rebounds per 40 around the all star break. But once again the majority of the minutes came in meaningless situations, similar to Amir. Great back up, not a starter - yet.
But hey, I’m an open minded guy; I would love to see Gortat prove me wrong. If anything that would only make the team better.
Trade the farm for Bosh. Not because he’s the be-all and end-all of NBA basketball (he’s definitely not), but because having him on the Pistons roster makes Detroit an attractive free agent/trade destination. I call it the Garnett effect. KG didn’t want to be a Celtic until they acquired Ray Ray and had a couple guys on the roster he wanted to play with. Like E-double is saying, I’d at least see if some combination of Rip + Tay + filler/picks could get it done.
Having Bosh on board (with an extension as part of the deal, of course) will undoubtedly make it easier to sign any of the unrestricteds out there (Gordon, Turkoglu, Marion, whomever). Combine that with Detroit’s ability to offer fair contracts and we have ourselves a team people want to play for.
Additionally, with Bosh, we remain an attractive suitor come 2010 if we choose to reserve the financial flexibility beyond this offseason. It’s possible to argue that maybe some guys want to play with alongside Tay, maybe a couple want to run with Rip, but for some reason Bosh just has a ton of pull right now. Bosh is a guy NBA players want as a teammate. He’ll draw interest in the Pistons as a destination and would make it easier for us to build from there.
MP is breathing my air!
These coaching conspiracy theories are starting to look more and more solid to me and I agree with Mark Butters if JOD gets the guys he wants in free agency and were doing poorly Curry will be gone by All star weekend I also can see Laimbeer joining the staff.Can’t wait til free agency even if we end up with Gordon ,Gortat and Millsap/Lee thats got to make us a much more competitive team then last yr.I think we could just about accomplish that with the cap space we have leaving us Rip to trade for somebody.
I don’t understand the urgency to trade our best player, Rip, whether for Dalembert or Boozer or whomever. Didn’t we try trading our best player last year? If I remember right, that strategy didn’t work out very well then.
Don’t underestimate how good Rip is. He’s a multiple all-star for a reason. You’ll miss him when he’s gone just like you miss Chauncey now.
Not to mention that we’d probably replace him with a far inferior player in Gordon.
There are better ways to reload the team than to move Rip.
@Bill Higgins:
Agreed, 100%
I want Rip going nowhere. Aside from MFWB, Rip was the sole bright spot in our last shitty season. No matter what he was asked to do, he performed. His best friend and all-star backcourt mate was shipped out for Fiverson Deals. He was asked to play out of position at the 3. He was asked to come off the bench.
In spite of a tough start in November, after Chauncey was moved (emotional weight withstanding), he was a stud. Between that and playing injured in January, just look at the guy’s split stats and tell me he’s not our best player (again, november and january dipped with good reason):
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3330/splits;_ylt=Anr_n_joK4c6G2PKzvQryfBaPKB4
For the record, my “Rip for Dalembert” post was just an example of what you could expect in terms of quality if you trade him.
Also, I was late to the Gortat bandwagon. But, I think he’s a better athlete than Ali gives him credit for. I was impressed that he was able to hold his ground against Perkins in the post and also stay with Rondo on a pick and roll.
As for his footwork, I haven’t seen him in the post but I like the way he sets picks and rolls to the basket on offense. He makes himself a big target. His jumper looks like it has potential too.
FYI, a nice article on Jerebko in the Detroit News. Nice to know he wants to be in Detroit:
http://detnews.com/article/20090630/SPORTS0102/906300369/1127/Jonas-Jerebko-is-a-blast-from-Joe-Dumars–past
@QD, Joel:
Also, I was late to the Gortat bandwagon.
Shotgun! QD, I remember you being the First Call on someone we were hoping to be a Piston, I thought that was Gortat. Jog my memory? Can’t recall who that was…
Brandon the only problem with that scenario with Bosh is that he’s very likely to leave in 2010 to be with Wade in Miami. They have the same agent and reportedly want to play together. Now the flip side of that is he could convince Wade to come here, but you’d need tons of cap space not to mention a considerably better team (and coach).
Also keep in mind Bosh plays the high post because he doesn’t have the frame to go down low. To win a title with him, you need basically an all star center that rebounds, blocks shots and has a great post game.